Last week I visited the London Twestival and frankly it was a great place to meet some really smart people and of course the fact the event was supporting the charity water.
I have read some really good reviews of Twestival, especially Jemima Kiss’ article on the Guardian website.
One thing that never ceases to amaze me is anonymous commenting. The Guardian article was showered with comments from people simply there to create an argument, and frankly, to try to belittle the efforts of the Twestival team.
People often hide behind their online “username” and think that gives them rights to attack others. I hate this and think we should all get behind a campaign to stop this anonymous commenting, removing such comments will surely help clean up the web and remove bullies. The bullies never reveal their identity so why should we allow them to continue to spread their filth? By this I don’t mean innocent web stars like DaddyPapersurfer, I mean people that simply trawl the web spreading hate.
Should we not be able to name and shame cyber bullies? I refer you to a death threat Sylvie once had, as ever, it was an anonymous threat, sure it was a chain letter but shouldn’t someone be responsible for knocking on the door of that freak and actually make him or her explain why? I receive a number of emails each month from people asking what do when they receive such nasty comments on their blogs. I once had to call a Lady in the USA, she was being stalked across the web due to replying to an anonymous comment, she felt it was about to cross over to real life..of course, these bullies never appear offline.
That one example above simply should have been followed up and taken to the police, but as ever, online has no real law, no real way of tracking them down, masked IP addresses etc.
I suggest we get together and create a kind of mini-law. If we stop the anonymous comments, we could each play a part in making a start on cleaning up the web.
Or am I mad?
28 Comments
This is a tricky one ….. the only thing I can think of is to completely ignore them. As far as I can see it’s usually just a way of getting a rise out of other people. If the response is just a void whatever kicks they get out of it will evaporate ……. this worked when I was teaching …… although it was very strange how the bullies, when I taught PE, always seemed to be the one’s that connected rather heavily with the hockey stick when I was demonstrating a particular manoeuvre ………. what are the chances!!?!
Ooooooh this is a toughie!
On one hand I think yes, stop anonymous comments. People shouldn’t be allowed to comment if they’re not prepared to stand-by what they’ve said. Challenge the opinion not the person.
But on the other hand, sometimes an anonymous voice is only anonymous because it’s shy but still has a valid point.
One option would be to ensure every comment has the IP address logged to it, as it does on my blog. Yes you get asked for your name, email and URL but you can fake all those, at least with the IP address there is “somewhere” to start. Yes, okay so proxies can change things but not everyone knows how to do that.
Personally I’d never leave an anonymous comment but I’d certainly accept them on my blog.
I was informed by the BT engineer who was here fixing my connection that if you unplug from the system completely you’ll be allocated a new IP address when you connect again. Is this true? ……. and yes you are mad Kevin ….. but in a good way …….
I’ve been online since both of you were probably still in high school, and have always had some type of site. Back 12 years or so, it was a message board/forum and an old fashioned had-to-code-the-whole-thing-yourself type of site and I can tell you there have always been those anonymous types who use the internet to behave poorly. We used to call them trolls and I suppose some still do.
However… Daddy Papersurfer is correct. The solution isn’t to force everyone else in the world to give away their own identity and safety online, the solution is to ignore these people.
I rather resent people who imply that a person isn’t credible, or that using a screen name is a negative thing… and some people still play that game. I liken it to those who attempt to make my children feel like they aren’t ‘cool’ if they aren’t wearing lululemon. It’s just another form of snobbery… the old, ‘you’re not a real blogger/presence because you aren’t using your real name.’
There are legitimate reasons these days, for not using your real name online. I’m halfway to fifty… not a tech guru by any stretch of anyone’s imagination, and I’ve been able to ’stalk’ people for the purpose of showing them how even revealing small amounts of personal information online places them at great risk for their own personal safety. Some of us with children tend to take that seriously and want to make sure our online activities don’t place our loved ones at risk of an unstable person.
Because I’ve seen it, and as far back as when you both were worrying about whether or not you passed Chem30 instead of worrying about whether or not to allow anonymous comments.
These people will always be there, and they’re a good reason for us to BE anonymous. If one wants to have less interaction with these people… I suggest ignoring them. It’s the only thing I’ve seen work.
And despite proxy servers… people who threaten other people in a serious way still get caught. We’d like to think we’re anonymou online, but the fact is… commit a crime and you aren’t so anonymous after all. Your tracks are there on the server of that proxy… and your tracks are hidden away on your hard drive in so much as that even a restore won’t remove your tracks from law enforcement with a reason to seize it.
All these facts considered, it’s best to ignore the trolls, protect your privacy instead of giving it away to be ‘cool’ and when receiving stupid email… treat it as such. If it’s worrisome, report it to your local police. Most by now, have at least one person assigned to all matters internet.
Most cases of people being ’stalked’ are because they’ve been foolish with their personal details and left themselves open for it.
Now… I suppose it’s all the more clear why I think facebook is actually a POX on us. It’s like a disease that people get infected with and don’t know they’re sick until the lesions show up.
LOL, I suppose I’ve just made myself out to be 25 when what I really meant was halfway to fifty… from forty.
No sense lying about one’s age when one is happy to be where they are!
And I guess I should make it clear I have not ’stalked’ people, rather, shown some people how even I was able to learn more about them than they thought… so isn’t that scary if you think about real bad guys doing the same…
And DP – I believe it depends on the type of connection you have.
This is an interesting subject. I guess to ignore them is the better way (some people just write whatever name that goes to anywhere, this is an anonymous for me too)
You can also delete them (it’s your blog) but maybe not “for ever” in case you can use it for law purpose)
some people writes you a nice thing and they sign : Monica, or any other name and even if they are “anonymous” you don’t care.
So for me the point is how to get ride of dangerous, threatening or nasty comments? You can track the PC from they come if you have an statistic counter or so.
I don’t leave anonymous comments (even if sometimes I would like..) Why anonymous? because you feel that if you don’t agree with people sometimes (specially political issues) they can harass you instead, so I just choose to not comment even if in a “normal conversation” I will.
sorry about my English today…kind of tired…
an anonymous (nice one)
I used to, but, as some will remember, I came under attack from a specific anonymous commenter, and it just wore me out. Thus, no more anonymous commenting allowed.
I’d rather cut people off on the front end then have to constantly “police” the comments.
But let’s be fair – who out there really dislikes the Reverend, anyway, eh?
I have enough to deal with, just monitoring all the dirty comments left by DP anyway, really…
Oh pooh …..
I’m not anonymous. I read your blog post and then read the dissenting opinions. They’re interesting. I read a blog post, inspired by this conversation.
I know DaddyP’s real name and where he lives. If anyone needs this information I shall be auctioning it on ebay next month…
Oh and I say just ignore them. If we banned all rubbish from the internet none of us would get much of a look in…
My bid is being prepared as we speak, sir-
@penfold [I'll keep moving - we could clear up! - yippee]
I allow anonymous comments on my blog which is a fairly new one (only a month old). Don’t you have the option to ban these anonymous users (nay bullies) when they attack your blog? Personally, I think if you create a blog, you allow people to have access to your life (e-life for that matter) so you have to be aware of what you are blogging about.
Fracas – I soooo wish I was at high school 12 years ago! I had worked 5 years before the web was invented!
Get outta town Kevin… you are so not that old! If you worked 5 years before the web was invented, someone needs to go to jail for child labour infractions.
http://blog.fuelmyblog.co.uk/blog/2008/12/27/new-years-eve-party-invite/
Anyway… don’t let the trolls get to you. Sometimes, I toy with them for entertainment’s sake… and then when I’ve had enough, I just put their IP# in the block. They usually come around when I write utter nonsense… like telling people about things like anorexia or the dangers of street drugs. Oddly enough, no one ever seems to object all that much to the boob posts. Go figger. lol.
Ok, darn it anyway… I forgot the closing tag. It still works, but it looks like I’m way too fond of the color red.
Score 1 for the blog, 0 for the fracas.
I follow the thought “Any publicity is good publicity.” So long as it is not directly insulting anonymous comments are fine.
An attack that includes personal insults or swear words gets erased.
A little tiff is good.
I make my visitors fill out the form much like your blog does, and I have akismet installed, but everyone is still essentially anonymous since they can insert false information. I do have IP logs of visitors to my page, and if necessary could contact an ISP if some sort of threat were made, but I don’t know how far most ISPs will take that sort of thing. I guess the best practice is to go by the general privacy rule of the internet: if you don’t want someone to find it, don’t put it on the internet. Includes your name, phone number, physical address, work place, etc. Great post, I really thought it was insightful, you’re not just mad.
“she was being stalked across the web due to replying to an anonymous comment”
I honestly don’t know how this could happen unless she, in the first place, had already used too much personal information online.
Many people don’t think and register their domain names with a home phone and address, same with their email addresses, or use their real name email address to respond to comments and mail from people they don’t know… and then get all spooked when someone unstable locates their real life home. It’s not rocket science. If you blog and talk about where you live… if you then use your real name email to respond to anonymous people… all they have to do is use a people locator and find you. Ditto for registering any domain names with real information. It’s all very unwise.
I wish people would heed the advice people like me have been giving for years. They always think we’re just alarmists until something happens to them.
Take for example… even kids who think by placing their pages (at Nexopia for example) on “you must log in to see this user’s profile” that they’re safe. Not so. Two days ago, I searched a teen to help their parent… and despite their page being on that setting, google gave me a result that when clicked… allowed me to see their blog page that wasn’t accessible the traditional way. Apparently the same sort of backdoor methods can allow people to view some facebook info that users think can’t be seen.
The Raging Tech said it.. and I couldn’t agree more:
if you don’t want someone to find it, don’t put it on the internet
Regarding the chain letter thing Kevin…
Years ago, as DP said, we got them snail mail. Mostly, we just threw them out; some though, felt worried enough to re-send the dumb thing. These internet ones are no different. They aren’t death threats, they’re a sign that some poor sap is unsure enough about what they believe in, or in a bad enough place to think they must re-distribute them as insurance for their own safety. I find that really sad… but it’s not to be confused with a real death threat. In the past, a person had to copy the letter, buy stamps, etc. they may have thought more about actually re-sending it whereas now the internet gives the ability to do so immediately without thinking… allowing fear to rule their actions instead of clear thought. Notice how in your link to the one Sylvie got… it tells the reader not to stop reading even? Playing on that knee-jerk fear response.
Knowing when to just delete… and knowing when to report something… and if one has conducted their own online activites is a safe way, I don’t really think there’s much to worry about at all.
I allow anonymous comments … after all I do have a very powerful internet tool if I don’t like what they saying/it’s offensive or they are spamming me .. I press the delete button!
I guess my post was hasty, what I want to do is get the haters outed. They don’t do it in real life, they don’t say it to your face. How do we build or create something that shows just who people are in the case when they do spread hate. Why should the delete button be the way out, sod them, out them..
A step aside, shouldn’t every IP address be recorded? Then if someone did threaten or attack etc that IP address could be reported. Imagine a boss finding out that their head of PR has been shouting hate at a rival through anon comments on a blog..and I am sure IP addresses will one day be either licenced or monitored..Just look at the press and what the Governments want to do with the web.
As I said on the post, I know the email of hate was a chain email but think of this, if you are sat in a house alone for the first time as your hubby just went away on biz, and that very same day an email arrived or a comment on your blog arrived saying they are watching you and want to kill you, it is a tad spooky and that person should be caught. These are the circumstances I refer to, not the Sylvie case, but the people that tell me of their fear.
I just would love to be part of something that can figure out how to do this, any feedback or ideas would be a big help
And Madame Fracas, please come back to writing guest posts – I really miss the quality and help you used to bring as demonstrated above. It is so important.
pretty please..
Not hasty at all Kevin… look at the conversation it created! That’s the sign of a good post.
I do understand your point about fear. After I posted about the celebrity death hoaxes a while back, I received what appeared to be a real threat as a response to my outing the hackers who were behind the fake death hoaxes.
Momentarily, I worried. Then, I thought through my own online activities and decided not to let it get to me. Perhaps a snopes-like site where publishing lists of names/IP numbers, etc that have been proven to harass or make threats to people would be a good start? I suppose then, if it could be tracked that a certain ISP was lax in following up on these kinds of things, they could be publicly shamed into doing more. I’m sure it would be an all-consuming kind of site to run though, so someone without an already full plate might have to put up their hand to do it.
That aside… what are you saying then Kevin… you don’t want me to guest post ‘99 words for boobs’?
I like that video and song ……. just sayin’
Ugh. I can’t stand it!
Usually, I simply delete them and don’t give them the satisfaction of eliciting a reply.
And them sometimes, I throw them to my hungry readers.
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